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In early childhood education, the focus often centers on curriculum, activities, and daily routines. But what about the children themselves? How are their voices being heard and their rights being upheld? In this virtual coffee, we speak with Lucy Murrell<\/a>, an educator and consultant<\/span> with a passion for child-centred learning and well-being from Abundant Education<\/a>. Lucy brings a unique perspective, shaped by her experiences within the sector and her commitment to creating a more equitable and engaging environment for children. Lucy explores children’s rights, the state of play in the early childhood sector, and practical ways to amplify the voices of our youngest learners and support those who care for them.<\/p>\n How would you describe the current situation regarding the rights of the child in the sector?<\/strong><\/p>\n I think it\u2019s a mixed bag. There are absolutely some fantastic educators who truly put children at the core of their work. However, broadly speaking, I don\u2019t believe that\u2019s the norm. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s an understanding of the 1989 convention on the rights of the child, particularly Article 12, which states that children have the right to express their opinions on matters affecting them. I don\u2019t see that translated into practice consistently. It\u2019s often not a priority for companies, and even when it is, the understanding of *how* to translate it into practice is lacking. From policies affecting children in centers, to setting KPIs for educators that then affect how they interact with children, it just doesn\u2019t fully translate. I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s truly embedded in practice, and there\u2019s definitely space to improve understanding in this area.<\/p>\n It sounds like there\u2019s a gap between the intention and the execution. What do you believe is the main driver for that disconnect?<\/strong><\/p>\n To understand this, I think you have to look at the history of early childhood education in Australia. It was primarily established to get women into the workforce. That\u2019s an economic driver, not a child-centred driver. This unfortunately means that children often miss out because we have one size fits all childcare centres that don\u2019t necessarily meet the needs of all children and certainly don\u2019t champion the idea that children have a voice. Also, there\u2019s that historical attitude that children should be seen, not heard, which still unfortunately lingers in our society. We, in Australia, simply do not respect children and their voices in the same way as some other countries. I do think there\u2019s been some progress and a recent shift, particularly in the parenting world. And while I don\u2019t want to give it full credit, I do believe Bluey has played a role in helping parents understand the depth of thinking their children are capable of. There\u2019s been huge work from researchers over decades that show children\u2019s thinking and their ability to give perspectives on big topics.<\/p>\n You\u2019ve mentioned how market forces can sometimes lead to a less than ideal outcome. What about the regulatory framework? Is it doing enough to ensure children\u2019s voices are heard, and their rights are being upheld?<\/strong><\/p>\n I think it\u2019s a mixed situation. It often comes down to the individual. Implementing children\u2019s rights is very much a human-centred, heart-centred thing. It depends on people\u2019s understanding of children and their belief in the depth of their thinking. Some will simply not believe that children are capable to express their views, others might understand the right, but don\u2019t know how to put it into practice. Companies, including regulatory bodies, don\u2019t always fully understand how to create systems that effectively support children\u2019s voice. I\u2019d love to see a system where centres collate children\u2019s voices and send it to regulatory bodies, and then they show how they\u2019ve changed practices based on what the children are telling them. I\u2019m talking about this from children at all stages of development, even from as early as six weeks, when babies enter into our education spaces. Babies can\u2019t verbally tell you what\u2019s wrong, but they certainly indicate to you how they\u2019re feeling and whether a space is right for them or not. So we could all do better in that space.<\/p>\n Speaking of practical ways to improve the situation, what are some concrete steps that centres could take to better include children’s voices?<\/strong><\/p>\n I think it\u2019s about listening to every child and then adjusting what is expected of educators and children in those spaces. I would suggest that centres should be creating systems that capture the voice of each child, and not just what they are saying. It\u2019s important to pay attention to body language and facial expressions and other indicators of whether a child feels comfortable and safe. In terms of engaging with parents, as a parent it\u2019s important to be reflective about the expectations they have of their own children, or not, as the case may be.<\/p>\n That is an interesting concept, you mean in terms of often undervaluing children\u2019s capabilities? What might that look like practically for parents?<\/strong><\/p>\n Yes exactly, parents can often go into \u2018auto\u2019 mode with their kids, and sometimes, without over expecting, don\u2019t expect enough of their children. We often have a limited understanding of the capacity of children on all levels of development, be it language, thinking, or scientific thinking, and even just their self-care capacities. A simple example I like to use is when my son was a baby, I would carefully and methodically clean him, whereas my husband would get in the shower and say, here\u2019s the bar of soap off you go. My son was able to self-scrub from an early age. I also think that as parents, we also pull the punch on big topics, feeling it\u2019s too much for children to know. I remember when I was teaching a class of year 3 students, three young girls sat down and wrote protest signs during their free time that said save The Congo and Save Palestine. They had learned of events in the world and were taking action using their voices to have a say. When I asked what they were thinking about one showed me the sign of save The Congo and she explained that it was her country. She told me that people are stolen to be used as slaves and that it wasn\u2019t okay. She wanted to do something to stop this from happening. The other two girls showed me their sign about saving Palestine. They told me there was fighting happening there and people were being killed. They wished to raise awareness that this needed to stop. When I asked where they had heard about this from the girls were able to tell me that they had seen videos on YouTube about it. These eight year old children had information about big topics in the world from lived experience and from social media. Children are exposed to big topics often. The fear comes from not being able to express and process that information with an adult who\u2019s able to sit in curiosity with them and hear their voice. It\u2019s not about telling them all there is to know about war and violence. It\u2019s about hearing what they know and giving them space to share their thoughts. I gave these three girls an outlet and asked if they would like to create some art work or a book of artwork to share their thinking. They readily took up the opportunity and wrote down their thoughts illustrating their words. A next step for this thinking would be to share it with someone who can then act on their thinking. Someone who has influence in the are children are thinking about who can use that thinking to influence their work. There is so much space for us to hear child voice. They are ready to express their thinking and are keen to be heard. We just need systems in place to listen and act.<\/p>\n That\u2019s a powerful example of how children are capable of understanding complex issues. If you had a magic wand, what would you do to improve the sector and support children’s rights within the sector?<\/strong><\/p>\n There are some fabulous consultants out there who are doing great work that can help improve this space in the sector. But ultimately, this has to be core to what we do, and that comes back to regulatory authorities. They need to not just talk about it, but demonstrate it in everything they do. This means when they visit a centre, and they see a practice that might be against a regulation, instead of simply saying you can\u2019t do that, they need to listen to the educator, and the children, and consider why that particular method was chosen in this scenario. We need a shift to a more human-centred approach, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach. I\u2019d love to see regulatory bodies working with educators to understand their approaches and support them when they hear something from a child. Relationships, and systems, are meant to be reciprocal. I\u2019d like to see a world where educators, children, and governing bodies have a connection and flow with each other so we change and shift things as needed.<\/p>\n It sounds like you’re suggesting a move away from a strict tick-box approach to assessment, and towards a more evidence-based, child-centred model of practice?<\/strong><\/p>\n That\u2019s right. I think we need some level of assessment to safeguard children and ensure the minimum requirements of safety are met, however I think that type of approach tends to look at the lowest common denominator rather than working with the leaders in the sector. Many educators are the leaders in the sector and this is the key element that we are missing. I\u2019m of the opinion that educators should be researchers in their own practice and their word should be held in high regard. You shouldn\u2019t have to have a Ph.D to be listened to, you should be able to demonstrate you have deep level thinking in your practices. It\u2019s amazing that the sector has opportunities like the Early Childhood Learning and Development Conference (ECLD). I presented to ECLD two years ago as an educator in the field, showcasing what I had achieved with children and their thinking. They look for that work, they promote that work. This is the most authentic way for educators to learn from each other. The current system should be promoting ways that educators can share with each other. Teaching should be a thinking practice where we learn about our pedagogical craft everyday in practice with children, learning alongside them. I\u2019ve learned this from this research, lets explore this together is a statement that we should be hearing a lot more of in our sector. We all need to be encouraged to share the learning that we all do. Research indicates it takes 17 years to go from research into practice, and that is far too long. We need to be sharing our learning, and moving that to the field a lot faster.<\/p>\n If you enjoyed this conversation, don\u2019t miss the chance to hear Lucy Murrell live, alongside a lineup of incredible speakers<\/span>\u00a0at the Early Childhood Learning & Development Conference<\/a> on 8 March 2025 at Optus Stadium in Perth, WA. With the theme Empower, Nurture, Flourish; this event promises to inspire fresh ideas and approaches to early childhood education. Join us for Lucy\u2019s breakout session, where she\u2019ll dive deeper into heart-lead leadership and redefining relationships in early childhood. It\u2019s an event you won\u2019t want to miss! On the day don\u2019t forget to visit 1Place at the Exhibition Playground during the breaks. Book your ticket now<\/a>!<\/p>\n Conference:\u00a0ECLD 2025 \u2013 Conference WA \u2013 Child Australia ECLD<\/a><\/p>\n